Curse

Jongo River · Oct 16, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Honestly, if you dont like armor being tied to the completion of the game, then why are you playing?

I like the game? Happily playing outside of GW:EN, thankyou very much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Most games on the market expect you to finish the game before you unlock stuff, so why is it an issue in GWs?

I've never encountered one that does that before, but I don't generally play MMO's or console games. On the whole, I'd say that unlocking post-game strikes me as rather dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

It obviously wasnt an issue in factions or NF for endgame armor, so why here?

I've commented on that repeatedly. It was a much lesser issue, mitigated by other factors. There was only one set of armour that required completion in each of those chapters (out of many). Also, the chapters were part of an on-going campaign, so buying the armour at the end was not a concern.

I'm not concerned about challenge and effort, but I do loathe the apparent design of GW:EN to give everything only those who hang around afterwards to grind for titles & HoM nonsense, on just one character.

bungusmaximus · Oct 16, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

I'm not concerned about challenge and effort, but I do loathe the apparent design of GW:EN to give everything only those who hang around afterwards to grind for titles & HoM nonsense, on just one character.

Titles don't need to be grinded as long as people pull their head out of their *** and visit the npc's at the res shrines regularly while they PLAY the game

.

I finished GW:EN on my necro and she was r4 on all reputation titles. I can't call that grind. Some PvE skills are so insane that you can hardly leave home without them, I personally don't take them, but if people would require me to take some imba cheat skill only to get in a team my reaction would probably be: Suck less!

I think the game is already very successful in catering to almost any type of person on the servers. There is easy PvE (regular campaign stuff), hard PvE (hard mode, elite missions), easily obtainable goodies (victo's battle axe/blade/whatever), hyper rare stuff (tormented weapons), casual PvP (AB, RA), hardcore PvP (TA, HA, GvG), what do you people need more?

The saddest thing is that I suspect aNet to try and make PvP more 'casual' as well, deliberately leave trash builds in the game like SP/DA sins or melandru's derv's that can be ran by a trained chimpansee are a sad example.

freekedoutfish · Oct 16, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

I like the game? Happily playing outside of GW:EN, thankyou very much.

So what it comes down to is this...

...you bought GWEN purely to get the new armor and weapons and didnt want to have to play through any of the expansion to get it?

If that is the case, then sorry but I find your opinion very hard to respect if you unwilling to play the actual game to achieve anything.

Anyhoo, this is detracting from the thread so your welcome to message me and continue.

Hyper.nl · Oct 16, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Guild Wars does not need to be more towards casual players imo, because it already is. As casual player you can really come very far in the game, only some high-end area's may prove to be inaccessible to casuals because of the difficulty.

I als think Guild Wars should not forget the veteran players, so I'm glad that Guild Wars 2 seems to have better rewards for experience and maybe better statistical advantages for higher-end equipment as well. I hope GW2 will have a nice balance between a casual game and a level-equipment based game.

Mordakai · Oct 16, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

I've never encountered one that does that before, but I don't generally play MMO's or console games. On the whole, I'd say that unlocking post-game strikes me as rather dumb.

Most games "unlock" stuff as the game progresses, whether it's a rocket launcher in a FPS, or units in a RTS, or some other thing.

Frankly, GWEN armor is no harder to get then the end game armor of any other Guild Wars chapter.

Longasc · Oct 16, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

We should try not to mix up "casual" with "easy" difficulty.

I think GW does a pretty bad job at teaching new players the game. OK, the very nature of GW makes it unlikely they share the experience and/or pet peeves of Prophecies veterans...

But the game difficulty has been reduced so much that you can bad as hell and still make it - until you hit a solid brick wall.

5th grade math till you suddenly get confronted with advanced calculus - this is how GW is for new players. They do not get a chance to "grow" with the challenge, as there is none.

I hope GW2 gamedesign will offer more early challenges for players to master. This will make them better players in the long run and actually also offer them more enjoyment than easy dumbed down gameplay.

In the end, hardcore players and casuals would profit from this.

HawkofStorms · Oct 16, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Any time you hear a politician talking about making things better for "the children," you know that politician has his own agenda and is using people's natural sympathy for "the children" to get support for what he wants.

I think the same thing is true on these forums for "the casual player." No one who regularly posts on these forums is a casual player.

When lootscaling first came out, all the hardcore farmers wrote these long posts about how lootscaling was going to hurt "the casual player." In reality, they couln't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves.

And actually, that's fine. If your experience is made worse by something, by all means let people know. Just spare us the "I'm worried about he casual player" talk.

Winner.

GWG is not a valid sample size of the community. My roomate from a few years ago who plays GW like once a month is a "casual" player. He wouldn't even understand half the crap we are talking about because he isn't a big player of this game.

To the masses, ignorance is bliss.

max gladius · Oct 16, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

the game is becoming nothing but a casual blah... and by blah i mean.... blah...

only things to strive for.... is lower lvl arenas! woot.... that is only place ingame i see no "grind" and no total repetition, atleast till ur 100 wins in a row....

that is the only location in the entire GW universe that there is constant change, adjustments, fun.... well till some loosers build a blood spike team....

lvl 20 pvp turns into grind just as anything else in game does.

But when u take that grind, add alittle ripping the heads off of ppl with no clue what is going on.... there comes the fun...

Honestly... i see Anet ruining their own game, nothing is rare, nothing to strive for, nothing to save for, nothing to accomplish....

love the "if u need more casual game, try Solitaire"

They are ruining the "multiplayer" with heros, and they r ruining the "fun" by flooding the, once rare items, into the game...

Gaile herself said this...
"If you mean rare weapons by appearance, arent the end of game items rare?"

WTF? can she plz play the game alittle before she comments on anything? rare skins weapons dont top out at 15k.....

Just goes to show, Anet has no idea, care, concern what players want, desire, care about......

Oofus · Oct 16, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

You know, what I find amazing is all these threads lately were the majority of posters are against dumbing down the game and making it easier to get rare/prestigious things. Where the hell were all of you people a year ago? 6 months ago? Frankly you only have yourselves to blame for the state of PvE these days, and you know who “you” are. A year ago there were tons and tons of threads where the VAST majority of posters wanted the game to be drastically easier, more “casual player” based, wanted high-end armor at the first outpost for dirt cheap, wanted 15^50 Dwarven Axes for 5k, wanted every skill that everyone else could possibly have, all without having to put in any real effort at all. Well they made their voices heard, loudly, and got what they demanded, a simplified, instant gratification, rewardless game that any monkey could finish in a couple of days with all the bells and whistles they could want for their character. Whereas on the other side of the argument there were only about half a dozen of us, constantly being lambasted for being “elitist snobs”, making the point that all these little changes would add up to make the game ridiculously simple and remove any real reward system for effort and skill. Where were all of you people then? You were either on the other side of the argument then (and I see some of you who were) and now you’re paying for your demands, or you were silent and now you’re paying for you lack of involvement. Either way, you were part of what created this situation, either directly or through your inaction. Now suddenly the threads are all the exact opposite, everyone is complaining that the game is too simple, that some level of grind should be expected, that prestige shouldn’t be handed over at character inception. Well thanks for waking up after the fact, now that it’s too late to put the genie back in the bottle. To those very few who saw this comming and tried to prevent it, I feel your pain, I was there with you being called all sorts of names in those threads but our small numbers were drowned out by the ocean of "casual gamers".

max gladius · Oct 16, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Oofus, i fully agree (not trying to double post but will comment more)

All of this started back way back, when many of us saw this comeing, yet were bashed and flamed to death while trying to "open eyes" and prevent this final result that is oh too soon to come....

Alot of what was called "game balance" and "game adjustments" that oh so many of the players wanted, is now the exact thing that is biting them in the arse.....

I wish guru would have not dumped all the old things, cause i would love to put many a player in their spot who were "oh this is hard" , "oh, why cant it be like this" , "why r those weapons so rare"....

Now the tables have turned for many players, now they r siding with the ones of us they use to run into the dirt....

remember "warriors on strike thread" ya that was me, nothing but ppl flaming me to death because i, and few others were upset with no anti elemental dmg for warriors, and the nerf of the absorption runes and shields... you / we / i knew then, that this game was headed down the pits.... yet noone did nothing but burn me and others at the stake for that view.... in mater of 1 hr, sup absorb runes went from 80k to 8k, then to under 1k within next day....

Then "oh monk runes r so expensive" so anet increases rune drops, now 2k most expensive one and 12k for sup vigor..... now, now the same ppl who cried about the price in the past, are same ones in Lions Arch spamming to sell one, and cant figure out why cant get 10k for it.....

this game, is full of hypocrites that are nothing but followers, well here you lay in your bed that you have made, crying about the same thing you all hated many of us for arguing over 1 yr ago

leprekan · Oct 16, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

You know, what I find amazing is all these threads lately were the majority of posters are against dumbing down the game and making it easier to get rare/prestigious things. Where the hell were all of you people a year ago? 6 months ago? Frankly you only have yourselves to blame for the state of PvE these days, and you know who “you” are. A year ago there were tons and tons of threads where the VAST majority of posters wanted the game to be drastically easier, more “casual player” based, wanted high-end armor at the first outpost for dirt cheap, wanted 15^50 Dwarven Axes for 5k, wanted every skill that everyone else could possibly have, all without having to put in any real effort at all. Well they made their voices heard, loudly, and got what they demanded, a simplified, instant gratification, rewardless game that any monkey could finish in a couple of days with all the bells and whistles they could want for their character. Whereas on the other side of the argument there were only about half a dozen of us, constantly being lambasted for being “elitist snobs”, making the point that all these little changes would add up to make the game ridiculously simple and remove any real reward system for effort and skill. Where were all of you people then? You were either on the other side of the argument then (and I see some of you who were) and now you’re paying for your demands, or you were silent and now you’re paying for you lack of involvement. Either way, you were part of what created this situation, either directly or through your inaction. Now suddenly the threads are all the exact opposite, everyone is complaining that the game is too simple, that some level of grind should be expected, that prestige shouldn’t be handed over at character inception. Well thanks for waking up after the fact, now that it’s too late to put the genie back in the bottle. To those very few who saw this comming and tried to prevent it, I feel your pain, I was there with you being called all sorts of names in those threads but our small numbers were drowned out by the ocean of "casual gamers".

LOL, I was there. Even earned myself a ban arguing that inscriptions would be a bad thing long term for replayability.

Mordakai · Oct 16, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Yep, because Guild Wars PvE was always meant to be for hardcore gamers only... /sarcasm

In an attempt to defuse what will certainly be a flamefest, may I suggest there are two ways for a MMORPG to be successful:

1) Charge a monthly fee, then do everything in your power to get people to stay and play forever, with lots of carrots for time spent playing...

OR

2) Don't charge a monthly fee and make a game accessible and easy for new people to pick up so they don't feel alienated if they haven't been playing the game for 2 years straight.

I know which I'd rather play....

Despozblehero · Oct 16, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

If GW were more casual a coma would be more fun...

Jongo River · Oct 16, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Most games "unlock" stuff as the game progresses, whether it's a rocket launcher in a FPS, or units in a RTS, or some other thing.

Frankly, GWEN armor is no harder to get then the end game armor of any other Guild Wars chapter.

Technically all true, but I did say "post-game", as in "after" - you don't generally expect to have to finish an FPS with the pistol or crowbar, before you're given an assault rifle and rocket launcher. Granted the functionality isn't an issue here, but I struggle to see the sense in all the armours being a reward for completion, rather than progression.

The problem with GW:EN is you're stuck with a short "campaign" that only offers new armours after you've finished. Finishing may only take a day or two, but then what's the point in buying armour with no further adventures to wear it in? I just don't see the point.

The Herbalizer · Oct 16, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

You know, what I find amazing is all these threads lately were the majority of posters are against dumbing down the game and making it easier to get rare/prestigious things. Where the hell were all of you people a year ago? 6 months ago? Frankly you only have yourselves to blame for the state of PvE these days, and you know who “you” are. A year ago there were tons and tons of threads where the VAST majority of posters wanted the game to be drastically easier, more “casual player” based, wanted high-end armor at the first outpost for dirt cheap, wanted 15^50 Dwarven Axes for 5k, wanted every skill that everyone else could possibly have, all without having to put in any real effort at all. Well they made their voices heard, loudly, and got what they demanded, a simplified, instant gratification, rewardless game that any monkey could finish in a couple of days with all the bells and whistles they could want for their character. Whereas on the other side of the argument there were only about half a dozen of us, constantly being lambasted for being “elitist snobs”, making the point that all these little changes would add up to make the game ridiculously simple and remove any real reward system for effort and skill. Where were all of you people then? You were either on the other side of the argument then (and I see some of you who were) and now you’re paying for your demands, or you were silent and now you’re paying for you lack of involvement. Either way, you were part of what created this situation, either directly or through your inaction. Now suddenly the threads are all the exact opposite, everyone is complaining that the game is too simple, that some level of grind should be expected, that prestige shouldn’t be handed over at character inception. Well thanks for waking up after the fact, now that it’s too late to put the genie back in the bottle. To those very few who saw this comming and tried to prevent it, I feel your pain, I was there with you being called all sorts of names in those threads but our small numbers were drowned out by the ocean of "casual gamers".

Nice post.

Im pretty sure I am one of those elitest snobs you talk of.

Yeah I agree 100% with what you said.

People cried and cried to have everything instantly.

Anet give in to them and now those people are crying that Guild Wars is boring as everything is too easy to get.

I MP I · Oct 16, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Make guildwars more casual?? How??? I thought it already was!

@ Oofus and Max Gladius I agree with all of what you've said in your posts.

Martin Firestorm · Oct 16, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

That would be a great Guild Wars, because everyone who's annoying (99.9% of the playerbase including everyone who's going to post in this thread after me) quit and I'll be prancing happily along in my riches.

Heh, looks like that includes me. So you're prancing right now, huh? lol

Kissa · Oct 16, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Gosh, Guild Wars is the most casual game someone can play. My sister finished Tyria, Cantha and Elona with playing once a week, cuz my parents are so strict. She finished a mission and a pq everytime and got herself some nice armor. Whats wrong with that? I dont think she even knows anything about titles, uber-items and skill unlock. She just plays for fun. The grind is purely optional in Guild Wars.

manitoba1073 · Oct 17, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Nope I sure wasnt one that started thread long ago about it. sure wasnt me.

Sow the wheat you reaped then fellows, we said it was coming.

arcanemacabre · Oct 17, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

Nice post.

Im pretty sure I am one of those elitest snobs you talk of.

Yeah I agree 100% with what you said.

People cried and cried to have everything instantly.

Anet give in to them and now those people are crying that Guild Wars is boring as everything is too easy to get.

I'm certainly not crying about that. I complained about it then, and I still complain about it. The problem is, this time the 'hard to get' stuff is in the form of titles that control how powerful skills are. That needs to end. 5k Dwarven axes can stay, TYVM. I love it. The grind title-based skills are the only problem I have with GW at the moment.

I'm not sure what making a game "casual" means, though. Some seem to apply it to difficulty, but I don't think so. Make the game harder, I'm fine with that. Hard Mode, Elite missions, and PvP are all there to challenge those who are bored with the easy stuff. Cool deal. But they kinda pulled a 180 on casual players with this title-based skill stuff. That seriously needs to go. That is the part that needs to be casual and easy to get. We should all be on even playing ground, no matter how much time invested.

But yeah, love my 5k Dwarven Axe.